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Post by BoyInGreen on May 6, 2015 18:22:40 GMT
Thank you BoyinGreen! It all looks pretty swell, the templates you send also look very good and can be helpful, however I have encountered a problem. For some reason, when I try to simulate the Serbian and Slovenian leagues, when I type in the amount of seasons, it just goes out and I don't get the simulation. Do you know what the reason could be? Hi Emirates, I have just reproduced this now, and the simulation loads as normal. It might take a few seconds for the screen to come up, or you may need to update your Java. Let me know how you got on, it's great that you are taking an interest in this. Another problem might be that the space in which to enter the number of seasons only accepts numeric values, so one needs to make sure that no spaces are added by accident.
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aj37
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by aj37 on May 9, 2015 21:50:20 GMT
How hard it is to add championships in the program ? Personally I think it's probably the hardest thing to do here for you, (that and the problem of divisions with groups especially when they don't have any clear regional limits.) it's not too hard after that to update the teams strength (of course if we keep simple with points)
little question how much clubs maximum we can have in a division in the program ? I ask because there are the notable case this season of Argentina whose first division have 30 teams.
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 9, 2015 22:03:21 GMT
How hard it is to add championships in the program ? Personally I think it's probably the hardest thing to do here for you, (that and the problem of divisions with groups especially when they don't have any clear regional limits.) it's not too hard after that to update the teams strength (of course if we keep simple with points) little question how much clubs maximum we can have in a division in the program ? I ask because there are the notable case this season of Argentina whose first division have 30 teams. Hi aj37, it's fairly easy to add divisions: the first column is the name, then its relative reputation, number of teams, promotion berths, relegation berths and whether there are regional divisions. It's certainly much easier now than it was when I started this up first: I remember when the leagues were hardcoded that adding countries was very tedious, especially when there were regional divisions. The hardest thing for me anyway is updating the data: with nearly 50 countries, it is impossible for me to update this on my own every year, so that has unfortunately slipped. I have already outsourced the English data for this year, including the addition to hopefully two more levels. A readme is definitely on the to-do list and has been on the agenda for a long time. Yes, I am aware of Argentina. Currently, the maximum is 24, however in the next edition this will be increased to 30 to accommodate the Argentine league.
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 9, 2015 22:13:31 GMT
As an aside, if you are trying to add the CFA leagues to France or a regional division to some other country, I'm more than happy to implement the league structure for you.
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aj37
Newbie
Posts: 2
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Post by aj37 on May 9, 2015 22:27:06 GMT
I imagine it's hard to do that even if you divide the amount of championship to update in two between the ones with calendar seasons (Russia, USA, Japan, most south American leagues...) and the "typical" one ( for our european leaagues)
there are two things who I don't know if it could be done maybe "random" groups for the divisions with groups without real regional limits, for example I think about Italian série C, French CFA or Spanish Segunda division B, technically most of the groups in these divisions are generally placed regionally but it's not always the case and it changes all seasons not like the German Regionnalliga for example.
another possible things would be to have a list of non-league teams where there are really too much groups who could promote in the last league like it is the case from FM or some older FIFA.
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 9, 2015 23:06:19 GMT
I imagine it's hard to do that even if you divide the amount of championship to update in two between the ones with calendar seasons (Russia, USA, Japan, most south American leagues...) and the "typical" one ( for our european leaagues) That is definitely something that can be implemented. It would simply be a matter of splitting seasons in half and adding a boolean "summer" value.there are two things who I don't know if it could be done maybe "random" groups for the divisions with groups without real regional limits, for example I think about Italian série C, French CFA or Spanish Segunda division B, technically most of the groups in these divisions are generally placed regionally but it's not always the case and it changes all seasons not like the German Regionnalliga for example. This is already implemented to an extent with the Co-ordinates feature, for example in the Subdivisions csv file "North 22" takes the 22 northernmost clubs at that level. Even though I know they are not called by these names, Serie C I believe is North, Central and South; Segunda Division B is divided West, Central, East and South; i'm not sure about France but I believe that the Co-ordinates could simulate this as well. Admittedly, the present system has no randomness in it, and it is something that could be looked at. The trick is to make the random groups look realistic.another possible things would be to have a list of non-league teams where there are really too much groups who could promote in the last league like it is the case from FM or some older FIFA. That's possible. Thanks for your ideas, if you come up with any more, then great.
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Post by emirates on May 10, 2015 16:34:10 GMT
Hi there BiG, sry I couldn't get to you sooner. I downloaded it again and I still have a problem with the Slovenian and Serbian leagues that won't simulate. The others work perfectly though, these are the only ones I truly have an issue with. What do you think? Could there be an error between the first league and second league teams in the excel document?
Also, I would like to add that, while this is overall quite realistic, there are a couple of slip ups where a very very weak team winds up first on the table when in real life they will never even reach the upper half of the table, while very very strong teams finish up near the bottom. The following season that strong team ends up winning the league while the weak team that are champions end up last and relegated. I guess that I can change that on my own, since you've given me the templates, but since I am quite clueless, what should I really do in the excel documents? Change the overall team strengths or something?
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 10, 2015 16:57:23 GMT
Hi there BiG, sry I couldn't get to you sooner. I downloaded it again and I still have a problem with the Slovenian and Serbian leagues that won't simulate. The others work perfectly though, these are the only ones I truly have an issue with. What do you think? Could there be an error between the first league and second league teams in the excel document? Hi Emirates, nice to hear from you again. I've left a link at them bottom of this post where you can download a tested GSS with the real teams. This has been tested with Serbia and Slovenia and works. If you don't modify the Countries.csv it should be fine. I do know that there is an issue with Ireland/Republic of Ireland (wrong name) which will be fixed for the next edition.Also, I would like to add that, while this is overall quite realistic, there are a couple of slip ups where a very very weak team winds up first on the table when in real life they will never even reach the upper half of the table, while very very strong teams finish up near the bottom. The following season that strong team ends up winning the league while the weak team that are champions end up last and relegated. I guess that I can change that on my own, since you've given me the templates, but since I am quite clueless, what should I really do in the excel documents? Change the overall team strengths or something? That's odd. What country are you simulating? The only way I could see this happening is that if the small club overperformed in the season in which the data was taken, while the big club underperformed. If this is happening several seasons into the future, then this is because the strengths are based on the last season's results and the strength averaged. Some increase in variability is to be expected as time goes on, but what you're describing shouldn't really be happening. www.mediafire.com/download/psn0pfep41476qf/Global_Soccer_Simulator_Real_Teams.zip
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Post by emirates on May 10, 2015 19:21:42 GMT
I downloaded that and the Serbian and Slovenian leagues work perfectly now. Thank you very much! Ok, well I've been simulating the Bosnian league. To show you an example, I've just simulated it for 20 years and here is what I've encountered on the spot. Season 1: Siroki won the league (no surprise there, they are a force) and while Celik finished 5th (while they are pretty weak) and Sarajevo 6th (strong team, currently 1st on the table in real life) I understand that the season you were gathering your info showed quite differently and in time it will be updated, so no worries there. Travnik finished 14th and Vitez finished 13th, all barely escaping relegation. Velez finished 7th. Season 2: Velez are champions. Okay, the transition from 7th to 1st is possible and has happened (Velez would never win in real life though haha). Travnik finished 4th. A team that barely made it from relegation last season nabbing a Europa League birth in the following season is something I consider extreme. Vitez is now 8th. Big jump, but nothing too extreme yet. Siroki finished 14th, which is too weird considering how strong they are in real life, how high they are rated and them winning the league in the previous season. Sarajevo finished 2nd. Season 3: Vitez are champions. Pretty decisively might I add. Velez are back to mid table in 9th. Travnik are now 3rd and Siroki is back to 4th. Sarajevo on the other hand ended up 14th on the table only goal difference saving them from relegation. Sorry for the long post, but I needed to highlight the issues that I've witnessed within the Bosnian league. I've encountered the same type of issue in the Croatian league as well. Do't take it as me criticizing you, but I like what you've done with all this and would like to assist you and make it even better
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 10, 2015 19:46:01 GMT
I downloaded that and the Serbian and Slovenian leagues work perfectly now. Thank you very much! No problem!Ok, well I've been simulating the Bosnian league. Ah OK, that explains it. I'll take a look into that file. To show you an example, I've just simulated it for 20 years and here is what I've encountered on the spot. Season 1: Siroki won the league (no surprise there, they are a force) and while Celik finished 5th (while they are pretty weak) and Sarajevo 6th (strong team, currently 1st on the table in real life) I understand that the season you were gathering your info showed quite differently and in time it will be updated, so no worries there. Travnik finished 14th and Vitez finished 13th, all barely escaping relegation. Velez finished 7th. Celik is 7th in terms of strength in the file. Sarajevo is 3rd. The others do not strike me as unusual, as in real life teams can under or over perform.Season 2: Velez are champions. Okay, the transition from 7th to 1st is possible and has happened (Velez would never win in real life though haha). Travnik finished 4th. A team that barely made it from relegation last season nabbing a Europa League birth in the following season is something I consider extreme. Vitez is now 8th. Big jump, but nothing too extreme yet. Siroki finished 14th, which is too weird considering how strong they are in real life, how high they are rated and them winning the league in the previous season. Sarajevo finished 2nd. Season 3: Vitez are champions. Pretty decisively might I add. Velez are back to mid table in 9th. Travnik are now 3rd and Siroki is back to 4th. Sarajevo on the other hand ended up 14th on the table only goal difference saving them from relegation. Now I agree that this is definitely unusual, but not impossible. You wouldn't expect it in the big European leagues, but I'm not sure of it would be out of the ordinary in a country like Sweden, for example, where the league is quite competitive. What does concern me is that the variability here appears to be very frequent, much more than it should be. I suspect that the absence of a second tier in the simulator has something to do with it, since relegated teams would be dealt with in a way that the bottom teams are not at present.Sorry for the long post, but I needed to highlight the issues that I've witnessed within the Bosnian league. I've encountered the same type of issue in the Croatian league as well. No problem, I will try to find a way to sort this out, perhaps by weighting teams by league position, assigning a smaller amount of the strength to last season, etc.Do't take it as me criticizing you, but I like what you've done with all this and would like to assist you and make it even better Don't worry about it, in fact I would encourage more people to report any bugs they notice on this forum.
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Post by emirates on May 10, 2015 20:27:34 GMT
Yeah I was using Season 1 only to show you how it originally finished and compare with how it ended up going. While it is all possible, there are to great oscillations like with Siroki (despite being 2nd best rated) from 1st to 14th to 4th (Imagine Man City going from 1st to 17th to 5th) and, as you mentioned, are far too frequent. Bosnian league isn't quite like that, as they are more consisted of the regular title chasers (Sarajevo, Siroki, Zeljeznicar, Zrinjski and occassionaly Borac) and the teams that usually don't have a chance. Ok well, good luck with that all then. Is there any way I could help you with the sim? Any new leagues to add or something? I would very much like to help you with development, but I don't know if I am capable, not knowing what and how you actually do to make all of this. Are the csv files all that there is in editing this?
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 10, 2015 20:54:14 GMT
Yeah I was using Season 1 only to show you how it originally finished and compare with how it ended up going. That's OK.While it is all possible, there are to great oscillations like with Siroki (despite being 2nd best rated) from 1st to 14th to 4th (Imagine Man City going from 1st to 17th to 5th) and, as you mentioned, are far too frequent. Bosnian league isn't quite like that, as they are more consisted of the regular title chasers (Sarajevo, Siroki, Zeljeznicar, Zrinjski and occassionaly Borac) and the teams that usually don't have a chance. Thanks for all this.Ok well, good luck with that all then. Is there any way I could help you with the sim? Any new leagues to add or something? I would very much like to help you with development, but I don't know if I am capable, not knowing what and how you actually do to make all of this. Are the csv files all that there is in editing this? Thanks for the offer. Yes, adding new leagues is always something that is aimed for. No hard coding is required anymore to add league systems. Another thing that could be helpful, if you're good at languages, is to translate the phrases used in the game into languages that you know fluently, that would also be a help. Re adding clubs, the structure is as follows:
Column 1:Name Column 2:Strength (usually last season's points) Column 3:Latitude of stadium/city Column 4:Longitude of stadium/city Column 5:Is reserve team? (True or False) Column 6:Region
For Leagues:
Column 1:Name Column 2:Reputation Column 3:Total Number of Teams (if there are subdivisions the total across all the subdivisions) Column 4:No. of Teams promoted Column 5:No. of Teams relegated Column 6:Are there subdivisions? (True or False)
If there are subdivisions, you need to add a new .csv (comma delimited!) file called "[Country]_[level]Subdivisions.csv" with the following columns:
Column 1:Name Column 2:Reputation Column 3:Number of Teams Column 4:No. of Teams promoted Column 5:No. of Teams relegated Column 6:Subdivision method (Co-ordinate or region) If Col. 6 = Co-ordinate Write a compass direction in Col 7 and the number of teams you wish to extract in Col 8. Keep going across like this until you are left with the specs you desire. If Col. 6 = Region Column 7 is then the region from which clubs at that level will be taken. Be sure to assign each club to a region before doing this!
As for which leagues, which ones would you be interested in researching? England has already been taken by somebody else, but every other country is open at present.
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emirates
Contributor
General Researcher
Posts: 3
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Post by emirates on May 10, 2015 21:37:48 GMT
Well then, I am ready to take any of the other leagues. Whatever other league is in need of updating, I am ready to update it. You can message me your e-mail so I can send you some of the csv files with the updated leagues when I finish each. But firstly I would like to recommend a change in the rating system. I see here that in Croatia, Hrv. Dragovoljac who were 1st in the second tier are rated higher than Hajduk just because they earned more points in the 2nd tier than Hajduk did in the 1st. If it is ok, I would like to send you a proposition for a new rating system in the following couple of days when I sort it all out. Also, I would like to concentrate on completing all the European first tier leagues so the Champions League dream could perhaps become a reality in the near future
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Post by BoyInGreen on May 10, 2015 22:07:22 GMT
Well then, I am ready to take any of the other leagues. Whatever other league is in need of updating, I am ready to update it. You can message me your e-mail so I can send you some of the csv files with the updated leagues when I finish each. But firstly I would like to recommend a change in the rating system. I see here that in Croatia, Hrv. Dragovoljac who were 1st in the second tier are rated higher than Hajduk just because they earned more points in the 2nd tier than Hajduk did in the 1st. If it is ok, I would like to send you a proposition for a new rating system in the following couple of days when I sort it all out. Also, I would like to concentrate on completing all the European first tier leagues so the Champions League dream could perhaps become a reality in the near future Don't worry emirates the strength is relative to the team's division, so if a team gets promoted, its strength is halved by the internal code (to realistically compare it to the clubs in the new division) while relegated teams have their strength doubled. This is where the league reputation (currently irrelevant but will have a purpose once national and continential cups are created) comes in. But I'd still love to hear about your rating system though, anything that than improve the simulator is most welcome. Re leagues, I've already taken care of Cyprus so the leagues you could take care of could be Bulgaria, Albania and Hungary? Or would you like to add another league? my e-mail is irishsoccerpyramid(at)gmail.com. That's great, thanks for that.
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emirates
Contributor
General Researcher
Posts: 3
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Post by emirates on May 10, 2015 22:23:57 GMT
Oh, that is great then. It is great for the time being, but when the cups national and intercontinental come into play it will be a whole lot different. But until that day comes, this is ideal. I'll send you my system and you can see if it is good enough for use in the future.
Ok then, I'll get to it on the Hungarian, Albanian and Bulgarian leagues. How do I differentiate the first tier teams from the second tier teams in the csv document though? Does it automatically recognise the first 16 teams as first tier and the other 16 as second tier or do I have to do something else?
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